Need an experienced Romanian journalist to guide you through the local specifics of the Biden – Romania connection? It’s your lucky day: suffice to say that, as a mainstream news journalist, I shook hands with all Romanian presidents since the 1989 coup against Ceausescu.
LATER UPDATES ABOUT PREVIOUSLY UNREVEALED BIDEN BUSINESS IN ROMANIA AT THE END OF THIS EXPOSE!
LOCAL CONTEXT EXPLAINED LIKE NO OFFICIAL MEDIA WOULD DARE
Ukraine are two separate nodes in geopolitics. Ukraine is a historical Motherland for the Khazarian Jewish mafia, while Romania is both a treasure island for its resources and a historical confluence point for many cultures, tribes and interests. They have a lot to share, and usually anyone who dominates the market in one tries to expand next to the other, NATO and Obama paved the way too. But Romania is perceived as “a Latin island in a Slavic sea”. The neighboring Russia formed when the Russ tribes took control over the Moscow area from the Khazars, not long after many of them converted to Judaism, but most Khazars never left that land and the two populations learned to co-exist.
Joe Biden has been very active in Romania since the Obama presidency.
“Romania was by then a familiar place to the Biden family. A close friend and former staffer of Joe Biden, Mark Gitenstein, held the position of U.S. ambassador to Romania from August 2009 to December 2012. In March 2012, Hunter’s brother, Beau, was asked to do the ribbon-cutting at the new U.S. embassy in Bucharest.” –
According to Joe’s official statement from his 2014 visit in Romania, 2009 is also the year when he first made contact with the future chief of the local Anti-Corruption National Department (locally known as DNA), Laura Kovesi, back then just an ambitious prosecutor, now EU’s Prosecutor in Chief.
Laura, thank you for the introduction, but more importantly, thank you for your continuing involvement. As I — the first time our paths crossed was five years ago, as you said, and look at you now, pursuing an advanced degree, an advocate for international education. And you are a reflection of the progress your country has made and continues to make.
While leading DNA, with full support from US administration, Kovesi finished a process that started earlier: she decimated not only the local mafia, but basically any local capital that was strong enough to oppose foreign influence. One of Kovesi’s strongest opponents was a shadowy coalition of local tycoons known as The Monaco Group, after their preferred meeting place. The group was, and still is, headed by business mogul Puiu Popoviciu. This guy is the son-in-law of one of the darkest figures in Romania’s communist history, Ion “Teleaga” Dinca, former Minister of Internal Affairs and Vice-Prime-Minister under Ceausescu. Thus, he was deeply in involved with the former oligarchy and the secret services structures tied to it.
Coincidence or not, 2009 is also the year Popoviciu was hit with the only successful attempt by Romanian government to arrest him, a corruption file that will send ripple effects across the whole world.
After the 1989’s anti-communist “revolution”, in fact just a standard “orange revolution” (read “coup”), Romania has been ran and developed mainly with the capital and the data accumulated by the secret services operatives, who went on forming the Deep State of the new free Romania. Whatever external force wanted to do business in Romania had to negotiate with them. That’s not the case anymore, they’ve been slowly decimated by the Washington – Tel Aviv axis, which fully controls the state now, even the local mafia who only maintains local influence in the territory, but without access to the central commands, they can’t do much. Former prime-minister and socialist party leader Victor Ponta recalls in an interview that Kovesi had a direct phone link to Gitenstein, summoning the US administration’s help whenever she needed, as if the US Embassy was Aladin’s Lamp. And she used it to book the former socialist prime-minister Dragnea. Ponta said on video that Kovesi almost cancelled his official trip to US because he was supporting Dragnea. He eventually got to Washington, met Biden who told him “An independent Justice in Romania is very important for American companies”. Funnily, Popoviciu represents in Romania a host of top US companies, as shown further below. And Dragnea is now “prisoner to a circle of interests that roots in Israel, London and Washington”, according to his fromer colleague Ponta.
Vice President Biden visited Romania in 2014 and delivered a forceful speech against graft. “Corruption is a cancer, a cancer that eats away at a citizen’s faith in democracy,” he said. “Corruption is just another form of tyranny.”
2016: hunter enters the picture at the wrong time in the wrong place
2016 found Popoviciu desperately trying to escape a 9-year jail sentence for corruption, after the 2009 prosecution file we mentioned earlier came to fruition, the tycoon being convicted for scheming a public university and obtaining a bunch of valuable land for peanuts. Popoviciu launched an appeal. He assembled a high profile legal team to fight the conviction, which included former FBI director Louis Freeh, according to a release from Freeh’s firm. “We viewed Freeh as a guy who was wholly incompetent but who held on to power by making himself useful to the press and Republicans on the Hill,” says one Clinton White House aide. “He was a political opportunist who played Clinton, and he’s managed to escape the judgment of history for his mismanagement of the FBI.”
“In the final year of the Obama administration, an American lawyer traveled to Romania to meet with a businessman accused of orchestrating a corrupt land deal. The businessman was Gabriel “Puiu” Popoviciu, a wealthy Romanian real estate tycoon. The lawyer brought in to advise him was Hunter Biden, the son of then-Vice President Joe Biden, according to two people familiar with the matter. Hunter Biden’s work for Popoviciu in 2016 went unreported at the time, but Joe Biden’s involvement in Romania was very much public. The vice president was among the leading voices pushing the government to crack down on corruption.” NBC, Oct 2019
At the time he was brought in, Hunter Biden was performing work for the law firm Boies Schiller Flexner LLP where he was “of counsel.” He was no registered lobbyst, he had no reputation as a lawyer, but a massive one as crackhead. He had no skills or talents that could benefit Popoviciu, besides his family name. This was later confirmed by his former business partner Michael Bobulinski, who joined him in his Romanian trips and revealed that Hunter had zero expertise to recommend him for being in Romania.
Mr Popoviciu’s hiring of well-connected Americans seemed to be an effort to leverage “the importance to the Romanian government of the US-Romanian bilateral” relationship “to influence and possibly overcome his political challenges in Romania,” said Heather Conley, who was a deputy assistant secretary of state in the bureau of European and Eurasian affairs from 2001 to 2005.
Ms Conley, who is director of the Europe program at the Centre for Strategic and International Studies, warned that going to work in “environments where corruption is very prevalent, such as Romania, should be a blinking yellow light of caution reputationally for US firms and individuals.”
There’s a lot more to come out . . . Wait until we get to Romania
Rudy Giuliani in an appearance on Fox News
Here are a bunch of verified and accurate details NY Times revealed precisely one year ago, which both Biden and Trump are trying to sweep under the rugs: <<In 2015, before his first trip to Romania, Hunter Biden met with the Romanian ambassador to the United States in the country’s embassy in Washington, according to two people familiar with the meeting. Mr. Biden stressed that he was undertaking the trip as a private citizen, and did not expressly mention Mr. Popoviciu, or his case, one of the people said.
At one point, Hunter Biden approached Mark Gitenstein, a former American ambassador to Romania during President Barack Obama’s first term, to discuss the possibility of referring the Popoviciu case to Mr. Freeh, according to someone familiar with the conversation.
Mr. Gitenstein, who had served as a Senate aide for the senior Mr. Biden and now sits on the board of the Biden Foundation, defended the work of the prosecutors who targeted Mr. Popoviciu.
“Both the vice president and I had total confidence in the anti-corruption prosecutors in Romania, and did everything in our power to support them, both during our time in office and after,” Mr. Gitenstein said.
Mr. Mesires acknowledged that Hunter Biden referred Mr. Popoviciu to both Boies Schiller Flexner, the law firm where Hunter Biden worked at the time, and Mr. Freeh’s firm, Freeh Group International Solutions.
Mr. Popoviciu hired both firms, according to four people familiar with the arrangements. Mr. Popoviciu could not be reached for comment.
Boies Schiller Flexner declined to comment.
Mr. Freeh’s firm started work for the Romanian businessman in July 2016, shortly after Mr. Popoviciu was initially convicted by a Romanian court.
Mr. Freeh conducted a review of the case with a team of retired prosecutors and F.B.I. agents. The team concluded there were “numerous factual and legal deficiencies in the case,” according to a statement summarizing the findings issued in 2017, after the Romanian high court upheld Mr. Popoviciu’s conviction and handed down a seven-year prison sentence. Mr. Freeh called for Romanian authorities to review the case, and reach “another result.”
That has not happened. Mr. Popoviciu was arrested in London shortly after the high court’s decision. He posted bail and is fighting extradition to Romania.
While Mr. Biden ended his work on the case at some point after recruiting Mr. Freeh, Mr. Freeh continued working for Mr. Popoviciu.
Last year, Mr. Freeh retained Mr. Giuliani, a longtime associate whose 2008 presidential campaign Mr. Freeh supported, to help with his efforts in Romania.
In August 2018, while serving as Mr. Trump’s personal lawyer during the special counsel’s investigation into Russia’s election interference, Mr. Giuliani wrote a letter to Romania’s president criticizing the country’s anti-corruption prosecutors and urging amnesty to those who had been convicted in the crackdown.
That could have included Mr. Popoviciu, though Mr. Giuliani did not explicitly mention him in the letter. Mr. Giuliani said the Freeh Group was paying his fee, but did not identify the Freeh Group client on whose behalf he wrote the letter. However, he told Politico at the time that it “was based on a report I reviewed” by Mr. Freeh.
In the letter, Mr. Giuliani expressed concern about the “continuing damage to the rule of law being done under the guise of effective law enforcement” in Romania.
Less than two months earlier, the American embassy in Bucharest, along with the embassies of 11 other countries, had issued a statement reaching the opposite conclusion. It highlighted Romania’s “considerable progress” in combating corruption and in building an effective rule of law.
The statement, which came at a time when contentious alterations to the criminal code were moving through the Romanian parliament, also called on all parties involved to “avoid changes that would weaken the rule of law or Romania’s ability to fight crime or corruption.” >>
US Secretary of State assistant praises Romania’s fight against corruption
Successor to Joe Biden, The US Secretary of State’s assistant for Europe and Eurasia, Wess Mitchell, praised Romanian government’s fight against corruption same week Biden attacked it for threatening Kovesi’s position. Mitchell basically told Romania to keep it up.
“The progress Romania registered in combating corruption is impressive. We applaud it and urge you to continue, because this way you can eliminate the vulnerabilities that hostile powers can use to undermine the state from within,” Mitchell said in a speech at the Bucharest University’s Law Faculty. He added that the anticorruption institutions are proof that Romanians are brave in defending the liberties they fought for in 1989.
The US official also referred to Romania’s offshore legislation, which should be passed by the Parliament in the next period, saying that this should encourage investments in the Black Sea. He added that, by becoming a gas exporter, Romania can support Europe’s energy security on the long term.
US group ExxonMobil is involved together with local group OMV Petrom in the biggest offshore gas project in the Romanian Black Sea. They are also the most hated company by the Rockefellers.
a recap and some facts WESTERN MEDIA DIDN’T (WANT TO) PICK UP ON
So in 2009, Romania was aligned with many structures, from NATO to EU, complied with its allies and seemed like a well trained horse to jockey for the Tel Aviv – Washington axis. In fact, the local mafia was playing along but still held a lot of power, many connections in the East and Middle East, and a veto on anything. That was a liability for the new rulers. Obama assigned the area between Central Europe to Caucasus to Biden, who sent his pal Gitenstein to manage Romania, and together they started this offensive against local capitals and mafia, just to pave the way for their own. Together they groomed the future Chief Prosecutor Laura Kovesi, now a Trojan horse in the EU. And in the process they met a hard-to-crack nut: The Monaco Group /Puiu Popoviciu. A member of the group, Elan Schwartzenberg, admitted in a 2018 interview on the local B1 TV that Kovesi, in alliance with the new president Iohannis, was by far overpowering them. But they still had enough leverage to negotiate.
Popoviciu was not only backed by the former communist oligarchy, he IS also representing a host of US and International companies in Romania: Howard Johnson, Grand Plaza, Ramada Plaza și Ramada Parc, IKEA, Pizza Hut, KFC…
Popoviciu had the money to buy access to anyone and eventually his freedom. Which he did. He was released on bail, official sources told local tv station Stirileprotv.ro. The businessman has paid GBP 200,000, and has to wear an electronic bracelet. He is now wondering around London with a tracking bracelet on his leg, but less restrictions than the average Romanian under lockdown. Down from nine years of jail in Romania, the initial sentence proposed by Kovesi’s team.
Both Biden and Giuliani are boasting about their anti-corruption fight on TV while feeding on money from people like Popoviciu.
WHAT NO OTHER MEDIA WILL TELL YOU: shady deals with the us embassy for protection?
On 23rd of August 2006, one of Popoviciu’s companies, Baneasa Investment, rented 40,000 square meters of land to the US Embassy in Bucharest, then ran by Nicholas Taubman. The embassy sealed the deal for 99 years at the price of $8million. It may seem a lot, but the annual price per square meter was just around $2, while the market price in that area was around $150. The Romanian journalists who broke the story comment (video below, Romanian only for now): “At the time when this deal was closed, Popoviciu’s corruption case was clearly going against him already, and it’s more than likely this was his way to ensure some political protection from US. He has US citizenship and a long standing friendhsip with the embassy”. At the end of the video, a liberal senator asks on Romania’s prime news channel Antena3: “The suspicions against Popoviciu where so well known and so grounded it’s imaginable how the US Embassy could cut such a striking deal with him”. Here comes the best part: This plot the US Embassy in Bucharest sat on is part of the land involved in Popoviciu’s corruption file. A few ears after the 2006 deal, Beau Biden goes to inaugurate the new Embassy there. Then Hunter Biden goes to defend Popoviciu against Laura Kovesi for stealing that land, basically. All while Joe Biden was grooming Popoviciu’s prosecutor and playing the anti-corruption guardian of the Universe on TV. To add insult to injury, in 2018, Romanian courts orders that the land returns to state property. The Bucharest Court of Appeal has ruled that 224 hectares of land in Bucharest’s Baneasa area, where some of Bucharest’s biggest retail projects and the U.S. Embassy are located, must return to the state. The decision is not final and can be challenged, according to Digi24.ro.
Romania Insider reports, in December 2018: “The land targeted by this sentence currently belongs to Romanian investor Gabriel Popoviciu, who was convicted to seven years in jail, in August 2017, for having illegally obtained it from the Bucharest Agronomy University in the early 2000s. The High Court of Cassation and Justice ruled at that time that Popoviciu must return the land to the state.
According to the anticorruption prosecutors, the Agronomy University gave the land to Baneasa Investments, a company jointly owned by Gabriel Popoviciu and the University, at a value of USD 1 per sqm while the real value was some EUR 150 per sqm.
Baneasa Investments used the land to develop one of the biggest real estate projects in Bucharest, including office buildings that host the headquarters of several multinationals, the Baneasa mall and the first IKEA store in Romania. The U.S. Embassy also built its new headquarters on a land plot provided by Popoviciu.
Two firms registered in Cyprus and believed to be controlled by Popoviciu also filed a complaint against the Romanian state at the International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes (ICSID) in Washington. They accused Romania of breaching the bilateral treaty for protecting investments signed with Cyprus and asked for compensations of “at least USD 200 million”, according to media reports.”
Former prime-minister of Romania Victor Ponta recalls in his afore-mentioned interview: “In May 2014, Joe Biden came to Romania and gave a speech in which he said, among other things: ‘When politicians can be bought, when the courts can be manipulated, when the press becomes an instrument of propaganda, there you will find a society that can be manipulated from the outside, that loses control over its own destiny. Not only his political security, but also his physical security is compromised. We have seen in Ukraine how 15 years of corruption have undermined their system of military institutions and the country’s ability to defend itself. ‘
While Biden was saying all this, the American flag placed in honor of the high guest fell to the ground.” The story is confirmed by TV reports we have from that time.
Fast forward to June 2020: László Kövér, the leader of the Hungarian Parliament, accused Laura Kovesi, now chief prosecutor of the European Public Prosecutor’s Office, of being a foreign agent.
During the debate on the EU’s economic recovery package, László Kövér accused Laura Codruţa Kovesi of being a foreign agent and said that Ceausescu would be proud of her. Kover accuses Kovesi of gaining notoriety by launching dozens of investigations into political opponents, including Hungarian mayors.
Fidesz leader adds that hundreds of thousands of phone calls have been intercepted as a result of a collaboration between DNA and Secret Services
“They were completely unjustly accused, taken from their families at dawn in the car of a command unit. During this time, hundreds of thousands of phone calls were intercepted as a result of a collaboration between DNA and Security. Well, if Comrade Ceausescu were alive, he would be satisfied if he saw what she’s am doing in Romania “, said László Kövér, the leader of the Hungarian Parliament.
“How could Romania, as a state, remain functional as a result of such unforgivable activities, which clearly had external motivations, this is a matter that I leave to the judgment of the Romanian electorate. But is he really expected to join this European Prosecutor’s Office because he would be guided by a policy of impartiality, the rule of law and clean hands? ”, said Kover, according to 444.hu.
Commenting on Kover’s statement, Romanian analyst, former politician and definite Deep State operative, Cosmin Gusa says in a Facebook post: “Kover, publicly and OFFICIALLY revealing Laura Codruta Kovesi as “the agent of SOROS-type foreign powers”, gives us confirmation that at international diplomatic level Romania is perceived as a state led not by Romanians, but by others , a poor COLONY OF AN EXTERNAL CONJURATION difficult to identify precisely, and our leaders some useless puppets who do not exercise their constitutional role. We had the clearest recent evidence even by addressing the Coronavirus crisis, when our authorities directed their actions exactly in the spirit generated in the US by the phalanx “DEEP STATE – SOROS”, respectively in a spirit contrary to that desired by Donald Trump , the president of our so-called “strategic ally”. Which tells us clearly that our American partner was never the American state, but the “PREDATORY GROUP” in the DEEP STATE there, who through political puppets like Joe Biden and senior officers of their intelligence structures, took advantage and looted almost everything they grabbed from Ukraine, Romania and other weak states in Europe. The great shame felt by every Romanian who still possesses the feeling of NATIONAL PRIDE is one aspect, but what’s worse is to imagine how bad we will perform the near future, seeing that Romania is now perceived as being unmanaged, ready “TO BE DIVIDED BETWEEN THE GREAT AND INTERESTED PLANETS OF THE PLANET”…
Political partisanship makes Gusa separate Trump from international schemers, but it’s just a false impression, as Giuliani’s gig in Romania stands to prove, as well as Trump a.
October 2020: average Romanians enjoy less liberties than Puiu Popoviciu. Joe Biden advocates for masks, vaccines and quarantines. Kovesi is a great European prosecutor. Anti-corruption triumphs, people die of heart diseases at home, as hospitals are busy with propaganda. And when they get to the hospital, they die of Covid. #Justice.
To be updated
As promised, we follow up with important updates you don’t get many places, if any. Below we have e-mail evidence that The Bidens were developing more big businesses in Romania in 2017, at the same time as Joe was sweating hard fighting local corruption.
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! Articles can always be subject of later editing as a way of perfecting them
This is an 100% genuine official quote we dug up from the man that was at the helms of Operation Paperclip, has been Nixon’s Assistant for National Security Affairs and it is said to be Trump’s shadow adviser. This is not even the juiciest detail in the document we obtained from University of Southern California.
Chinese leader Mao Zedong met republican US president Richard Nixon on February 21, 1972, that is no secret to anybody. However, the meeting took place in Chairman Mao’s living quarters and the precise details of the conversation have not been known until more recently, when they have been declassified and published by USC US-China Institute of the Southern California University. They didn’t draw any public attention, and I think they should.
Below we publish the integral declassified transcript of the Beijing meeting between China’s leader and America’s, as made public by SCU. Emphasis added by us on some paragraphs.
February 21, 1972
MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION
PARTICIPANTS: Chairman Mao Tsetung Prime Minister Chou En-lai Wang Hai-jung, Deputy Chief of Protocol of the Foreign Ministry Tang Wen-sheng, Interpreter
President Nixon Henry A. Kissinger, Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs Winston Lord, National Security Council Staff (Notetaker)
DATE AND TIME: Monday, February 21, 1972- 2:50-3:55 p.m.
PLACE: Chairman Mao’s Residence, Peking
(There were opening greetings during which the Chairman welcomed President Nixon, and the President expressed his great pleasure at meeting the Chairman.)
President Nixon: You read a great deal. The Prime Minister said that you read more than he does.
Chairman Mao: Yesterday in the airplane you put forward a very difficult problem for us. You said that what it is required to talk about are philosophic problems.
President Nixon: I said that because I have read the Chairman’s poems and speeches, and I know he was a professional philosopher. (Chinese laugh.)
Chairman Mao: (looking at Dr. Kissinger) He is a doctor of philosophy?
President Nixon: He is a doctor of brains.
Chairman Mao: What about asking him to be the main speaker today?
President Nixon: He is an expert in philosophy.
Dr. Kissinger: I used to assign the Chairman’s collective writings to my classes at Harvard.
Chairman Mao: Those writings of mine aren’t anything. There is nothing instructive in what I wrote.
(Looking toward the photographers) Now they are trying to interrupt our meeting, our order here.
President Nixon: The Chairman’s writings moved a nation and have changed the world.
Chairman Mao: I haven’t been able to change it. I’ve only been able to change a few places in the vicinity of Peking.
Our common old friend, Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek, doesn’t approve of this. He calls us communist bandits. He recently issued a speech. Have you seen it?
President Nixon: Chiang Kai-shek calls the Chairman a bandit. What does the Chairman call Chiang Kai-shek?
Prime Minister Chou: Generally speaking we call them Chiang Kai-shek’s clique. In the newspapers sometimes we call him a bandit; we are also called bandits in turn. Anyway, we abuse each other.
Chairman Mao: Actually, the history of our friendship with him is much longer than the history of your friendship with him.
President Nixon: Yes, I know.
Chairman Mao: We two must not monopolize the whole show. It won’t do if we don’t let Dr. Kissinger have a say.
Chairman Mao to Dr. Kissinger: You have been famous about your trips to China.
Dr. Kissinger: It was the President who set the direction and worked out the plan.
President Nixon: He is a very wise assistant to say it that way. (Mao and Chou laugh.)
Chairman Mao: He is praising you, saying you are clever in doing so.
President Nixon: He [Kissinger] doesn’t look like a secret agent. He is the only man in captivity who could go to Paris 12 times and Peking once and no one knew it, except possibly a couple of pretty girls.
Dr. Kissinger: They didn’t know it; I used it as a cover.
Chairman Mao: In Paris?
President Nixon: Anyone who uses pretty girls as a cover must be the greatest diplomat of all time.
Chairman Mao: So your girls are very often made use of?
President Nixon: His girls, not mine. It would get me into great trouble if I used girls as a cover.
Prime Minister Chou: (laughs) Especially during elections. (Kissinger laughs.) Dr. Kissinger doesn’t run for President because he wasn’t born a citizen of the United States.
Dr. Kissinger: Miss Tang is eligible to be President of the United States.
President Nixon: She would be the first woman President. There’s our candidate.
Chairman Mao: It would be very dangerous if you have such a candidate. But let us speak the truth. As for the Democratic Party, if they come into office again, we cannot avoid contacting them.
President Nixon: We understand. We will hope that we don’t give you that problem.
Chairman Mao: Those questions are not questions to be discussed in my place. They should be discussed with the Premier. I discuss the philosophical questions. That is to say, I voted for you during your election. There is an American here called Mr. Frank Coe, and he wrote an article precisely at the time when your country was in havoc, during your last electoral campaign. He said you were going to be elected President. I appreciated that article very much. But now he is against the visit.
President Nixon: When the President says he voted for me, he voted for the lesser of two evils.
Chairman Mao: I like rightists. People say you are rightists, that the Republican Party is to the right, that Prime Minister Heath is also to the right. President Nixon: And General DeGaulle. Chairman Mao: DeGaulle is a different question. They also say the Christian Democratic Party of West Germany is also to the right. I am comparatively happy when these people on the right come into power.
President Nixon: I think the important thing to note is that in America, at least at this time, those on the right can do what those on the left talk about.
Dr. Kissinger: There is another point, Mr. President. Those on the left are pro-Soviet and would not encourage a move toward the People’s Republic, and in fact criticize you on those grounds.
Chairman Mao: Exactly that. Some are opposing you. In our country also there is a reactionary group which is opposed to our contact with you. The result was that they got on an airplane and fled abroad.
Prime Minister Chou: Maybe you know this.
Chairman Mao: Throughout the whole world, the U.S. intelligence reports are comparatively accurate. The next was Japan. As for the Soviet Union, they finally went to dig out the corpses, but they didn’t say anything about it.
Prime Minister Chou: In Outer Mongolia.
President Nixon: We had similar problems recently in the crisis on India-Pakistan. The American left criticized me very heavily for failing to side with India. This was for two reasons: they were pro-Indian and they were pro-Soviet.
I thought it was important to look at the bigger issue. We could not let a country, no matter how big, gobble up its neighbor. It cost – I don’t say this with sorrow because it was right – it cost me politically, but I think history will record that it was the right thing to do.
Chairman Mao: As a suggestion, may I suggest that you do a little less briefing? (The President points at Dr. Kissinger and Chou laughs.) Do you think it is good if you brief others on what we talk about, our philosophic discussions here?
President Nixon: The Chairman can be sure that whatever we discuss, or whatever I and the Prime Minister discuss, nothing goes beyond the room. That is the only way to have conversations at the highest level.
Chairman Mao: That’s good.
President Nixon: For example, I hope to talk with the Prime Minister and later with the Chairman about issues like Taiwan, Vietnam and Korea. I also want to talk about—and this is very sensitive—the future of Japan, the future of the subcontinent, and what India’s role with be; and on the broader world scene, the future of US-Soviet relations. Because only if we see the whole picture of the world and the great forces that move the world will we be able to make the right decisions about the immediate and urgent problems that always completely dominate our vision.
Chairman Mao: All those troublesome problems I don’t want to get into very much. I think your topic is better—philosophic questions.
President Nixon: For example, Mr. Chairman, it is interesting to note that most nations would approve of this meeting, but the Soviets disapprove, the Japanese have doubts which they express, and the Indians disapprove. So we must examine why, and determine how our policies should develop to deal with the whole world, as well as the immediate problems such as Korea, Vietnam, and of course, Taiwan.
Chairman Mao: Yes, I agree.
President Nixon: We, for example, must ask ourselves—again in the confines of this room—why the Soviets have more forces on the border facing you than on the border facing Western Europe. We must ask ourselves, what is the future of Japan? Is it better—here I know we have disagreements—is it better for Japan to be neutral, totally defenseless, or it is [sic] better for a time for Japan to have some relations with the United States? The point being—I am talking now in the realm of philosophy—in international relations there are no good choices. One thing is sure—we can leave no vacuums, because they can be filled. The Prime Minister, for example, has pointed out that the United States reaches out its hands and that the Soviet Union reaches out its hands. The question is which danger the People’s Republic faces, whether it is the danger of American aggression or Soviet aggression. There are hard questions, but we have to discuss them.
Chairman Mao: At the present time, the question of aggression from the United States or aggression from China is relatively small; that is, it could be said that this is not a major issue, because the present situation is one in which a state of war does not exist between our two countries. You want to withdraw some of your troops back on your soil; ours do not go abroad.
Therefore, the situation between our two countries is strange because during the past 22 years our ideas have never met in talks. Now the time is less than 10 months since we began playing table tennis; if one counts the time since you put forward your suggestion at Warsaw it is less than two years. Our side also is bureaucratic in dealing with matters. For example, you wanted some exchange of persons of a personal level, things like that; also trade. But rather than deciding that we stuck with our stand that without settling major issues there is nothing to do with smaller issues. I myself persisted in that position. Later on I saw you were right, and we played table tennis. The Prime Minister said this was also after President Nixon came to office.
The former President of Pakistan introduced President Nixon to us. At that time, our Ambassador to Pakistan refused to agree on our having a contact with you. He said it should be compared whether President Johnson or President Nixon would be better. But President Yahya said the two men cannot be compared, that these two men are incomparable. He said that one was like a gangster—he meant President Johnson. I don’t know how he got that impression. We on our side were not very happy with that President either. We were not very happy with your former Presidents, beginning from Truman through Johnson. We were not very happy with these Presidents, Truman and Johnson. In between there were eight years of a Republican President. During that period probably you hadn’t thought things out either.
Prime Minister Chou: The main thing was John Foster Dulles’ policy.
Chairman Mao: He (Chou) also discussed this with Dr. Kissinger before.
President Nixon: But they (gesturing towards Prime Minister Chou and Dr. Kissinger) shook hands. (Chou laughs.)
Chairman Mao: Do you have anything to say, Doctor?
Dr. Kissinger: Mr. Chairman, the world situation has also changed dramatically during that period. We’ve had to learn a great deal. We thought all socialist/communist states were the same phenomenon. We didn’t understand until the President came into office the different nature of revolution in China and the way revolution had developed in other socialist states.
President Nixon: Mr. Chairman, I am aware of the fact that over a period of years my position with regard to the People’s Republic was one that the Chairman and Prime Minister totally disagreed with. What brings us together is a recognition of a new situation in the world and a recognition on our part that what is important is not a nation’s internal political philosophy. What is important is its policy toward the rest of the world and toward us. That is why—this point I think can be said to be honest—we have differences. The Prime Minister and Dr. Kissinger discussed these differences.
It also should be said—looking at the two great powers, the United States and China—we know China doesn’t threaten the territory of the United States; I think you know the United States has no territorial designs on China. We know China doesn’t want to dominate the United States. We believe you too realize the United States doesn’t want to dominate the world. Also—maybe you don’t believe this, but I do—neither China nor the United States, both great nations, want to dominate the world. Because our attitudes are the same on these two issues, we don’t threaten each others’ territories.
President Nixon: Therefore, we can find common ground, despite our differences, to build a world structure in which both can be safe to develop in our own way on our own roads. That cannot be said about some other nations in the world.
Chairman Mao: Neither do we threaten Japan or South Korea.
President Nixon: Nor any country. Nor do we.
Chairman Mao: (Checking the time with Chou) Do you think we have covered enough today?
President Nixon: Yes. I would like to say as we finish, Mr. Chairman, we know you and the Prime Minister have taken great risks in inviting us here. For us also it was a difficult decision. But having read some of the Chairman’s statements, I know he is one who sees when an opportunity comes, that you must seize the hour and seize the day.
I would also like to say in a personal sense –and this to you Mr. Prime Minister—you do not know me. Since you do not know me, you shouldn’t trust me. You will find I never say something I cannot do. And I always will do more than I can say. On this basis I want to have frank talks with the Chairman and, of course, with the Prime Minister.
Chairman Mao: (Pointing to Dr. Kissinger) “Seize the hour and seize the day.” I think that, generally speaking, people like me sound a lot of big cannons. (Chou laughs) That is, things like “the whole world should unite and defeat imperialism, revisionism, and all reactionaries, and establish socialism.”
President Nixon: Like me. And bandits.
Chairman Mao: But perhaps you as an individual may not be among those to be overthrown. They say that he (Dr. Kissinger) is also among those not to be overthrown personally. And if all of you are overthrown we wouldn’t have any more friends left.
President Nixon: Mr. Chairman, the Chairman’s life is well-known to all of us. He came from a very poor family to the top of the most populous nation in the world, a great nation. My background is not so well known. I also came from a very poor family, and to the top of a very great nation. History has brought us together. The question is whether we, with different philosophies, but both with feet on the ground, and having come from the people, can make a breakthrough that will serve not just China and America, but the whole world in the years ahead. And that is why we are here.
Chairman Mao: Your book, “The Six Crises,” is not a bad book.
President Nixon: He (Mao) reads too much.
Chairman Mao: Too little. I don’t know much about the United States. I must ask you to send some teachers here, mainly teachers of history and geography.
President Nixon: That’s good, the best.
Chairman Mao: That’s what I said to Mr. Edgar Snow, the correspondent who passed away a few days ago.
President Nixon: That was very sad.
Chairman Mao: Yes, indeed.
It is alright to talk well and also alright if there are no agreements, because what use is there if we stand in deadlock? Why is it that we must be able to reach results? People will say… if we fail the first time, then people will talk why are we not able to succeed the first time? The only reason would be that we have taken the wrong road. What will they say if we succeed the second time?
(There were then some closing pleasantries. The Chairman said he was not well. President Nixon responded that he looked good. The Chairman said that appearances were deceiving. After handshakes and more pictures, Prime Minister Chou then escorted the President out of the residence.)
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